Suppression over Destruction: O'Donnell explains that while the DShK caused the most visible damage (9:54 - 10:49), it is not the preferred weapon for infantry. In a modern war zone, where drone surveillance makes long-term stationary positions dangerous, battlefield value depends on portability, reliability, and the ability of an exhausted crew to maneuver (2:00 - 3:23).
The Case for the PKM: The PKM is highlighted as the most practical choice for Ukrainian infantry because it is durable, chambered in widely available ammunition, and easy for crews to handle under extreme stress (3:24 - 4:42).
The Myth of Cover: The test confirms that common civilian vehicles like a Lada provide almost no ballistic cover (7:11 - 8:05). O'Donnell emphasizes that concealment is not the same as cover.
Operational Realities: The host notes that the "best" weapon is highly contextual. Factors such as weight, maintenance requirements, heat management (6:51 - 7:10), and the physical cost to the crew (12:23 - 13:15) are far more critical than raw muzzle energy.
Ultimately, O'Donnell argues that the test proves destructive power does not equate to battlefield utility, as the weapons requiring the most setup and manpower are often the least viable for fast-moving infantry units.
Having fired the FN MAG myself (Canadian's call it the C-6) everything said here is gospel. PKM can fire dirty but it gets the job done. Western GPMG's are better but they need oil and a barrel change to function as intended.
War thread
- Dr Strangelove
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Re: War thread
It can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. - Sagan
Cynicism is acceptance
Cynicism is acceptance
- Dr Strangelove
- Posts: 15831
- Joined: Wed May 08, 2024 4:50 pm
Re: War thread
Geography and Logistics: The two nations are not neighbors and are separated by significant distance (400+ km), making large-scale land operations logistically unfeasible and risky (1:38-2:16).
Air War: Israel possesses a more capable, technologically advanced air force, including F-35 stealth jets and superior avionics, while Turkey faces challenges with munitions stockpiles and integration of advanced systems (2:23-7:16).
Missiles and Air Defense: Israel relies on a highly capable, layered air defense network (Iron Dome, David's Sling) and a large stockpile of precision munitions. Turkey has a larger industrial capacity that could favor it in a long-term, "on-and-off" war of attrition, but currently lacks equivalent long-range interceptors (7:17-10:08).
Naval Conflict: While Turkey has a much larger submarine fleet, neither side has a significant advantage to apply decisive pressure on the other through naval power alone (10:09-11:47).
Strategic Conclusion:
Because neither side would likely achieve a decisive victory without catastrophic losses, the conflict would likely remain limited to political posturing and long-range strikes. Turkey might attempt to outproduce and outstrike Israel over time, while Israel would rely on maintaining a technical and qualitative edge (11:48-16:05).
As the US/Israeli alliance runs amok a united EU may end up with Turkey as the front line. I get there firstest with the mostest men, was a famous quote of Nathan Bedford Forrest for a reason. Airpower requires supplies and shipping lanes. Israel can get the US into a fight but it can't get out of one. This is what regional war looks like and it becomes a very slippery slope to full blown world war.
Air War: Israel possesses a more capable, technologically advanced air force, including F-35 stealth jets and superior avionics, while Turkey faces challenges with munitions stockpiles and integration of advanced systems (2:23-7:16).
Missiles and Air Defense: Israel relies on a highly capable, layered air defense network (Iron Dome, David's Sling) and a large stockpile of precision munitions. Turkey has a larger industrial capacity that could favor it in a long-term, "on-and-off" war of attrition, but currently lacks equivalent long-range interceptors (7:17-10:08).
Naval Conflict: While Turkey has a much larger submarine fleet, neither side has a significant advantage to apply decisive pressure on the other through naval power alone (10:09-11:47).
Strategic Conclusion:
Because neither side would likely achieve a decisive victory without catastrophic losses, the conflict would likely remain limited to political posturing and long-range strikes. Turkey might attempt to outproduce and outstrike Israel over time, while Israel would rely on maintaining a technical and qualitative edge (11:48-16:05).
As the US/Israeli alliance runs amok a united EU may end up with Turkey as the front line. I get there firstest with the mostest men, was a famous quote of Nathan Bedford Forrest for a reason. Airpower requires supplies and shipping lanes. Israel can get the US into a fight but it can't get out of one. This is what regional war looks like and it becomes a very slippery slope to full blown world war.
It can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. - Sagan
Cynicism is acceptance
Cynicism is acceptance
- Dr Strangelove
- Posts: 15831
- Joined: Wed May 08, 2024 4:50 pm
Re: War thread
Lack of combat experience: Unlike the US Patriot system, which has been refined through decades of real-world use starting in the Gulf War (3:04-3:48), the S-400 lacked combat-tested feedback to address design flaws (2:47-3:03).
Range and detection limitations: The widely cited 400 km range is misleading; it is limited by line-of-sight against maneuverable targets like drones and aircraft. Furthermore, Russia's lack of airborne surveillance makes early detection of low-flying drones difficult (3:51-4:40).
Insufficient deployment: The system lacks the density to cover the vast number of targets Ukraine is striking, a common challenge for air defense systems (4:40-5:14).
Ballistic missile vulnerabilities: The S-400 struggles against ballistic missiles like ATACMS or GMLRS because it lacks a dedicated 'hit-to-kill' interceptor, relying instead on fragmentation warheads that may not fully neutralize fast, high-energy threats (5:51-6:35).
Despite these issues, the system remains a threat, and the video notes that Ukraine successfully targets these systems by leveraging Western intelligence and satellite reconnaissance to identify their locations (5:15-5:50).
Range and detection limitations: The widely cited 400 km range is misleading; it is limited by line-of-sight against maneuverable targets like drones and aircraft. Furthermore, Russia's lack of airborne surveillance makes early detection of low-flying drones difficult (3:51-4:40).
Insufficient deployment: The system lacks the density to cover the vast number of targets Ukraine is striking, a common challenge for air defense systems (4:40-5:14).
Ballistic missile vulnerabilities: The S-400 struggles against ballistic missiles like ATACMS or GMLRS because it lacks a dedicated 'hit-to-kill' interceptor, relying instead on fragmentation warheads that may not fully neutralize fast, high-energy threats (5:51-6:35).
Despite these issues, the system remains a threat, and the video notes that Ukraine successfully targets these systems by leveraging Western intelligence and satellite reconnaissance to identify their locations (5:15-5:50).
It can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. - Sagan
Cynicism is acceptance
Cynicism is acceptance