CANADIAN ARMED FORCES VS The Wild Geese

[Dr Strangelove]

Reminds me of the emu wars.

[testerone]

Hear the latest?
If we buy f35s, even if the spare parts are in Canada the USA still "owns" them until they are installed on a plane and can send them from Canada to wherever they want. Did this to Denmark, sent their spares to Israel because they needed them. Regardless that Denmark's policy is not to supply arms to Israel.

If there ever was a case to buy Gripens and outfit them with RollsRoyce engines. Trump stopped a sale of Gripens to Columbia refusing export of the US made engines to them. Saab is trying out a new RR jet to get around Trump's bullshit.

[al_keda]

Yup. Gripen it is. I thought the US would have a kill switch because why fight their own weapons? But taking away spare parts is the same thing.

[Canucked]

Have we not learned that the cost of owning a European aircraft is far worse that potential American restrictions??
We have Cormorant that costs gazzilions for parts and shipping of parts.We do not have repair or overhaul facilities for it here in Canada and will not get any.
We also now have the Kingdfisher, an orphan converted Airbus/CASA C-295 built in Spain by EADS. Do you really think they are going to be easy to support?
We also have Airbus for troop transport but they have not been militarized so support is available.
Bottom line is, you will never know the true cost of the rotary and fixed wing SAR fleet because it would be too embarrassing tfor the government and th Military.

[Dr Strangelove]

Not sure what the point is here as any non-domestically created assets will all have drawbacks that impact sovereignty. Same issue with subs. Until Canada invests in developing its own supply chain for defence needs we will always be with the sword of damocles over our heads. Domestic will be inherently inferior and will require decades to get up to the demand. We can augment that by buying from allies to offset any deficiencies but we need to put our backs into it now and quit dithering.

[al_keda]

Not everything comes with a potentially hazardous supply chain. We could get rifles, transport, APCs etc built by a third country and be confident that we could repair it all. Especially if right to repair is in the contract.

Plus, South Korea put in the proposal that they would create repair facilities for the subs inside Canada.

The problem will come when we ask Irving to create a totally new technology that has to be built from the ground up, because that is an invitation for Boeing level pork barrel cost+ contracts. Get Hyundai to build it cheap then service it in Canada. We need it fast, not like the Sea King replacements; never and we get to pay $50M for the privilege.

[Canucked]

Not everything comes with a potentially hazardous supply chain. We could get rifles, transport, APCs etc built by a third country and be confident that we could repair it all. Especially if right to repair is in the contract.

Plus, South Korea put in the proposal that they would create repair facilities for the subs inside Canada.

The problem will come when we ask Irving to create a totally new technology that has to be built from the ground up, because that is an invitation for Boeing level pork barrel cost+ contracts. Get Hyundai to build it cheap then service it in Canada. We need it fast, not like the Sea King replacements; never and we get to pay $50M for the privilege.

I think you are naive. If you think manufacturers are willing to give us proprietary information so we can fix their product or manufacture spare parts you live in dreamland. LOL
The problem with us is not that we want Irving to build ships but that governments, of all parties, want to make sure ridings get their share of the money. Irving is just doing what the DND wants them to do and DND does what the government wants them to do. Keep the dollar bouncing in the communities. Make work.
The Sea King replacement took so long because the Military changed requirements 25 or 30 times and sometimes it meant the build went backwards. The Military did not want the Sikorsky machine to begin with but it was politically driven. Same situation with the Kingfisher fixed wing SAR aircraft. The Military was desperate for the C-295 but politics said no so they had to redesign a commercial aircraft to make it a SAR platform, and not a good one at that and it kept failing the requirements and flight tests so, they requirements had to be lessened and we got less than we wanted.

[Dr Strangelove]

South Korea lives in a VERY dangerous neighbourhood. They need friends they can depend upon for the long term that have harmonic national interests like the a free market and free society. Not one centrally controlled from Beijing. They don't want to be Hong Kong mark II or open the door to Taiwan reunification. They saw how Taiwan succeeded in becoming invaluable with semi-conductors and bet it all of defence contracts. If they don't get contracts they are done for. They need us now more than ever before just like the Baltics. If the line isn't held they are toast and they know it.

[al_keda]

Not everything comes with a potentially hazardous supply chain. We could get rifles, transport, APCs etc built by a third country and be confident that we could repair it all. Especially if right to repair is in the contract.

Plus, South Korea put in the proposal that they would create repair facilities for the subs inside Canada.

The problem will come when we ask Irving to create a totally new technology that has to be built from the ground up, because that is an invitation for Boeing level pork barrel cost+ contracts. Get Hyundai to build it cheap then service it in Canada. We need it fast, not like the Sea King replacements; never and we get to pay $50M for the privilege.

I think you are naive. If you think manufacturers are willing to give us proprietary information so we can fix their product or manufacture spare parts you live in dreamland. LOL

Well, yes I am naive.

But from a car perspective, manufacturers will put digital restrictions via an RFID tag in their parts so that you can't swap parts unless they are made by the manufacturer. Many manufacturers do this. But many militaries, including the US, are making it part of the procurement process that such restrictions do not exist in the equipment they are buying. It's not that difficult to rip an axle off a truck or barrel off a rifle and reverse engineer it, but if the manufacturer puts up roadblocks so that they get a steady parts revenue, then they are mistaken. There isn't anything proprietary about it.

Major suspects in this are companies like John Deere or Apple. And governments are getting wise and enacting right to repair laws. Militaries are no different. They won't be the victim of greed any more than people should be. If Hyundai wants to build subs for us, great! But we should be able to pull them apart and service them without hassle, even if we have to put that in the purchase order. If Hyundai wants to build repair facilities and provide repair service, even better.

[Canucked]

[
Well, yes I am naive.

But from a car perspective, manufacturers will put digital restrictions via an RFID tag in their parts so that you can't swap parts unless they are made by the manufacturer. Many manufacturers do this. But many militaries, including the US, are making it part of the procurement process that such restrictions do not exist in the equipment they are buying. It's not that difficult to rip an axle off a truck or barrel off a rifle and reverse engineer it, but if the manufacturer puts up roadblocks so that they get a steady parts revenue, then they are mistaken. There isn't anything proprietary about it.

Major suspects in this are companies like John Deere or Apple. And governments are getting wise and enacting right to repair laws. Militaries are no different. They won't be the victim of greed any more than people should be. If Hyundai wants to build subs for us, great! But we should be able to pull them apart and service them without hassle, even if we have to put that in the purchase order. If Hyundai wants to build repair facilities and provide repair service, even better.

You are incorrect. Manufacturers put on a bar code that is for all intents and purposes, the part identification and the materials and other data to verify it complies with ll specifications.
Again, incorrect, Militarys of the world are consumers, not manufacturers. The restrictions, if any, are put on by governments and they control who can buy the product.
Reverse engineering goes on all the time but, if there is a patent, then it cannot be sold anywhere. If you want to buy counterfeit pars, yo can do so but, military, aviation and vehicles are protected by laws on what can or cannot be used on them. If you use counterfeit parts, then your liability is zero.
Militarys are very much aware and concerned about counterfeit parts and a great deal of effort is made to prevent using them. Everything we buy has a maintenance requirement and service interval. But, the parts we use on them is very controlled. Not like your car or home...you can put on what you want but, if something goes wrong and a part is not certified, you will not be insured.
Patent laws protect the proprietorship of items.